Talk:The Finders

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Noteworthy TPD documents

  • 17.jpg: Why are the Finders men in Tallahassee, who are transporting 6 children with them, carrying a pack of Trojan condoms?
  • 39.jpg: HRS investigators say that two children have signs of sexual abuse
  • 25.jpg: Mary, one of the children, became very apprehensive and uncomfortable when asked about sexual abuse
  • 29.jpg: The Finders warehouse had a library of books, some concerning mind control
  • 67.jpg: An unconvincing denial that the goat sacrifices were a Satanic ritual
  • 68.jpg: Finders women say that the children get to eat whenever they're hungry, but the children themselves had earlier told police they only got food as a reward. The police investigator makes no note of this discrepancy.
  • 71.jpg: Case is closed with absolutely no mention of the sexual abuse finding by HRS
  • 64.jpg: The two Finders men were instructed, over the Finders' computer network, about a cover story to use if they were stopped by police. Why, if they were doing something totally innocuous, would they expect to be stopped by the police?
  • 18.jpg: Why were the Finders men carrying a Chinese-English dictionary with them? There are strange connections to China elsewhere in the TPD report and in the US Customs report. Apparently, one of the Finders children learned to count to 10 in Chinese from a Chinese man at the warehouse (who the USCS report also talks about), and there are mentions of Finders members going/fleeing to China later in the report. Also, the US Customs report on the Finders mentioned that children were being ordered from a contact in Hong Kong.
  • 26.jpg: One time around Christmas, the women came downstairs naked in front of the children
  • 30.jpg: Doug Ammerman, one of the Finders men arrested, responded to a letter from his brother with two strange letters. One, containing the letterhead of "Gung-Ho Traders" in DC, said Ammerman was en-route from Hawaii to China. The other was a letter addressed to "Mrs. Ammerman" (unclear whether it's Doug's mother or wife, probably the former), describing Doug's genitals and thanking her for having such a stud for a son, signed "wives of Gung-Ho".
  • 47.jpg: Lt. Lee Hart of the Culpepper VA police was familiar with the Finders, and heard from an informant inside the cult that Marion Pettie (leader of the cult) told the cult members to flee and hide, and that Pettie himself would probably go to Andrews AFB and take a military plane to China. Again, there's that weird China connection, and why would they need to flee (especially out of the country) if their activities weren't criminal?
  • 48.jpg: A San Francisco police officer contacts the Tallhasee PD, stating that a "local pager" (unsure what that is) printed an article saying that San Francisco was involved in the Finders case. The Presidio sex abuse case, involving Lt. Col. Michael Aquino, was taking place in San Francisco around this time.

USCS report veracity

One person on Wikispooks raises questions about whether the US Customs report on the Finders was accurate. He argues that both USCS investigators, Ramon J. Martinez and Bob Harrold, had links to right-wing extremists with a motive for promoting Satanic panic. Though worth examining, this doesn't necessarily discredit the report, and in many cases, Tallahassee PD documents corroborate the account of the Finders investigation told in the report. However, information that comes solely from the USCS report is the Finders ordering children, direct involvement in child porn and Satanism, their interest in criminal activity ("terrorism", "explosives", "Pentagon break-in", etc.), and the CIA shutting down the investigation.

Indeed, according to a 1993 FBI investigation, there are discrepancies between what the USCS investigators found and what the MPD investigators found. The MPD claims not to have found any of the above items that were unique to the USCS report. That would also call Martinez's account of the CIA shutting down the investigation into question, since he's the only official source to mention it. On its own, the FBI report doesn't provide much indication of which agency is lying, so some questions need to be asked:

  • Who is the "third party" that Martinez spoke to and learned about the CIA closing the investigation?
  • Was the MPD report indeed classified secret?
  • Did Martinez get called in for questioning by the FBI about the discrepancy, as the documents indicate?